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Soul-Searching Ordeal of MP Milton. Doubts, Shock, Fears, Tears And the Future She Sees
Published on: 9 Sep, 2019
Updated on: 12 Sep, 2019
Dragon Interview: Guildford’s deselected MP Anne Milton, former skills minister, health minister and deputy chief whip, talks to Martin Giles, editor of The Dragon NEWS, about the emotional journey that led her to rebellion, with 20 other Conservative MPs, and the shock of excommunication from the party to which she had devoted her political loyalty.
And she lays out for her constituents her clear views on what choices lie ahead for us on the crucial journey forward to decide the future for Britain.
Many Conservative voters in Guildford, perhaps the majority, must have voted Remain but most local party members are strongly in favour of Leave, it seems. It has obviously been a dilemma for you. Has the issue kept you awake at night?
AM The Brexit issue has kept me awake at night. I think I have searched my soul deeper over the past six to nine months than I have at any other time in my parliamentary career. I don’t think one should make assumptions about Conservative voters or about members of the Conservative Party locally. It is pretty divided on this. It does not fall one way, or the other.
I have searched my soul deeper over the past six to nine months than I have at any other time in my parliamentary career.
There is probably a majority for leaving the EU without a deal but if it is a majority it is a small majority. And leaving the EU is something that cuts right across party political lines and always has done. We entered the EU only with the support of Labour votes so it’s not really a party political issue.
Sir Nicholas Soames said he shed some tears when told he had lost the Conservative whip. Amber Rudd has said you did too. Is that true?
AM I am, like Nicholas Soames, quite an emotional person. Although I try not to shed tears publicly I tend to do it in private. Any tears I have shed over the past week have been on several accounts. One was voting against my party, and losing the whip was a very emotional thing, no one should do it lightly. It was very emotional.
I try not to shed tears publicly I tend to do it in private… It was very emotional
Some of the email messages of support that I have had since then have brought a tear for sure. I think I feel quite emotional when I have seen that some of the Facebook groups have sent messages, not expressing any [political] view but saying they are praying for us all in Parliament at this difficult time. I think when people stretch out a hand to offer support, irrespective of what they feel, it is very emotional.
But by voting against your own government, after years of helping maintain voting discipline as a whip, hasn’t your action only helped those MPs who are, in fact, motivated to do everything in their power to overturn the referendum result?
AM I can only vote with my conscience, taking a view of my own constituency, taking a view of the country as a whole. I am not in the business of overturning the result of the referendum. I will take each vote as it comes. I have always felt that leaving the European Union without a deal would be bad for the country.
Government ministers have accepted the fact there will be in their own words, “bumps in the road”. My feeling about those “bumps” is that they will be borne by those least able to bear them. And I don’t necessarily hold great store with all the so-called “Project Fear” scenarios about us leaving without a deal but I do think there will be an economic bump. And if there is, it often affects those least able to afford such bumps.
My experience as Skills minister also reinforced that, because I went to all different parts of the country, met lots of businesses during that time and that experience compounds my concerns anyway about leaving without a deal.
Many have said that Leave voters did not know what they were voting for in 2016? Do you believe that?
AM I think people do know what they are voting for but they were voting for whether they wanted to stay in the European Union or leave. I don’t think at that time people, anybody, including politicians, fully appreciated how complicated that would become, or how divisive that would become. So what we have discovered is there are all sorts of different ways of leaving the EU and I don’t think that was clear during the referendum but I do think they knew what they were voting for, Leave or Remain.
There was a second part to that choice: in what form did you want to remain in the EU or in what manner do you want to leave?
I don’t necessarily hold great store with all the so-called “Project Fear” scenarios
You voted for the so-called “May deal” which many saw as a compromise reflecting the closeness of the referendum result. But no compromise would have been possible if the result had been 52% to 48% in favour of Remain, would it? We would have just remained.
AM That’s absolutely true. We would have just remained and that would have been it. I think the important thing about leaving the EU, especially without a deal, is that isn’t an end state and Theresa May’s deal wasn’t an end state. It gave us two years of transition to renegotiate our relationship with Europe. If we leave without a deal we still have to renegotiate a trade deal with the EU.
Don’t you think that Parliament’s action causing ongoing delay is damaging our country’s reputation abroad and faith in our democracy at home?
AM I do think it is damaging, I think it is damaging both those. I think it is damaging our standing in the world and I think it is damaging our economy. The delay has been damaging, without a doubt.
The delay has been damaging, without a doubt.
You say you are in favour of a second referendum. I think you have been for some time, but won’t that only add to and prolong the divisiveness and agony?
AM I have always had grave concerns about a second referendum, as I expressed in my letter to constituents, because I hoped that the House of Commons would reach agreement, not necessarily on party lines. I hoped that everybody would put their party T-shirts to one side and vote for a deal that would see us leave the European Union, come out of the political structures and we could then get on with renegotiating our future relationship.
I have always said it wasn’t until, and if, the House of Commons was deadlocked that we would need a second referendum. I actually now think we do need one to resolve the situation. It has to provide more than two choices and we have to apply voting methods such as single transferable vote. So you find out where the country’s compromise would be, if you like.
Why should Remain be a choice when it’s already been rejected?
AM I think that because of the closeness of the 2016 referendum Remain should probably be on the ballot paper but that would be for MPs to debate. To have a second referendum, there would have to be enabling legislation and decisions made about what goes on the ballot paper.
There does have to be more than two choices because what I don’t think you can do is re-run the 2016 referendum. I think it has got to have wider choices now people better understand. But I think you probably have to have all the options, including no-deal, on the ballot paper and that is the only way we can bring this country together. Even Anna Soubry [leader of Change UK] has said if there was a second referendum and no-deal won it she will go with that decision.
You told the BBC on World at One today (September 9) that you don’t know what you will do next but you won’t be defecting to the Lib Dems and you have not ruled out standing as an Independent if the Conservative whip is not restored.
AM If you’ve been through what is in effect quite a significant crisis what is important is not to make any rushed decisions. I don’t yet know what my future is with the party because at the moment the whip has been withdrawn, so I will reflect on all the events of the past week and make a decision over the weeks ahead.
I honestly don’t know what my future holds so it’s time to pause, reflect… a general election. It will resolve nothing.
You have quoted Labour member Stephen Kinnock saying: “Moderate people need to come together.” How do you think that should happen?
AM Well, Stephen Kinnock has been working hard with a number of MPs to see if there’s cross-party support which includes some of Theresa May’s deal, some of the things the Labour Party want because, ideally, we would get a deal approved by the House of Commons. I think if that was the case, as Stephen Kinnock has said, there would certainly be a clause in that, or an amendment, for a confirmatory referendum, so we’ll see what happens when Parliament comes back.
I am very disappointed that Parliament has been prorogued over the next five weeks because, actually, I am not going to the Conservative Party conference. I hadn’t booked to go because I felt that the House of Commons should be sitting, even if it was only for two days a week during conference recess so MPs had an opportunity to question ministers, look at no-deal planning, scrutinise all the things the government is doing at this very significant time for our country.
What is the situation regarding selecting a new Conservative candidate for Guildford?
AM The party whip has been withdrawn from me however, no seats will reselect for those of us who have had the whip withdrawn until a general election is called. I honestly don’t know what my future holds so it’s time to pause, reflect. Things moved very fast over the past week and they could move equally fast over the next week. But I do not support holding a general election. It will resolve nothing.
But you have decided not to defect to the Lib Dems?
AM Having left one party I would not just jump into another.
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Responses to Soul-Searching Ordeal of MP Milton. Doubts, Shock, Fears, Tears And the Future She Sees
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Stuart Barnes
September 10, 2019 at 8:38 am
I am not surprised that Anne Milton is not going to the Conservative Party conference – her reception would not be good.
It is interesting that she is the second so-called Conservative in fairly recent years to do the dirty on the electors and the party. The previous one did the same to the great and good Lady Thatcher.
Sue Fox
September 10, 2019 at 4:40 pm
No politician does anything without considering the impact it will have. I would advise Anne Milton not to rush into anything. I left the Lib Dems several years ago on the principle of treating council employees as one would wish to be treated.
I still vote for Lib Dems and remain good friends with several former councillors of all parties and none.
Anne Milton does not deserve derogatory comments. My best wishes for her future. I probably won’t agree with her but that’s life.
Jim Allen
September 10, 2019 at 5:34 pm
One wonders just how our MP plans to solve the problem of a minority government without a general election. The Brian Rix farce in the Commons last night clearly shows the patients have taken over the asylum. For the majority appeared to be intoxicated with their new found power but are unfit to run our country. A general election is the only rational way forward now.
David Pillinger
September 10, 2019 at 8:24 pm
I admire Jim Allen’s devotion to democratic solutions using our archaic and very undemocratic UK system. He should be careful, the Conservatives may lose a general election.
Jim Allen
September 11, 2019 at 8:53 am
It’s about breaking this deadlock, not the colour of the Executive.
Stuart Barnes
September 11, 2019 at 9:17 am
The attitude of the faux Conservative Remainers is beyond parody. Having apparently achieved their desired result by the spending of almost unbelievable amounts of money and with the undemocratic use of parts of the media and other helpers eg BBC, Channel 4, Speaker Bercow, big business, and lawyers as well as lies, unconstitutional and possibly illegal devices, they are now afraid of losing the next general election.
As someone once said – you couldn’t make it up.
But I can tell you how to lose Guildford, just let Anne Milton stand as a Conservative again. A loss is guaranteed. The same can be said about other constituencies being betrayed by the rest of the de-whipped former Conservative MPs.
John Armstrong
September 10, 2019 at 8:55 pm
I am not quite sure why this interview with Anne Milton was granted in the first place. I wonder who’s idea it was, the constituency party committee, her press officer, The Dragon? I wonder if she still has staff in Westminster, and what of the other rebels, have they lost the whip in name only?
I am somewhat suspicious of the whole thing. It is plain that Anne Milton hopes that the whip will be restored and that she wishes to remain as the Conservative Party candidate for Guildford, otherwise why continue to talk to the electorate through The Dragon, and why wait and see? Maybe the constituency party should take it out of her hands.
She says she is not defecting to the Lib Dems. I wonder why? She obviously wishes to remain or she would not favour a second referendum. Let us be quite clear; anyone who wants a second referendum is a Remainer. The loser always wants to toss the coin until it comes down in their favour.
In fact, I cannot believe Anne Milton’s brass neck. Not only does she want a second referendum because we did not understand what we were voting for; she wants a three-way choice. Somehow she thinks that will bring the country together. The only way to bring the country together is a clean break Brexit followed by prosperity to give the lie to Project Fear.
I have just seen the news. I note that the DUP have just exited No 10 without speaking to the Press, as was expected. Perhaps the prime minister’s talks with the Irish taoiseach were more fruitful than we have been led to believe.
I think that the whip will be restored; just in time to vote on the duplicitous deal cutting out Northern Ireland that the prime minister will bring back from Brussels.
I do not trust them, not even Boris (what a shame) who is, I believe, a Remainer in sheep’s clothing.
Editor’s note: The interview with Anne Milton was requested by The Guildford Dragon NEWS which communicated with Anne Milton directly.
David Wragg
September 11, 2019 at 8:33 am
Did Anne Milton really think that she could vote against the party and retain the whip?
We have had a referendum, that was the real “People’s Vote’. We don’t need another and a three-way choice could mean no majority for any option.
Harry Eve
September 11, 2019 at 9:43 am
Are the Conservata guildfordii nearing extinction due to failure to adapt to change in the local climate?
John Perkins
September 11, 2019 at 1:01 pm
If Anne Milton believes there is a majority for leaving without a deal, however small, then she has no right or reason to prevent it, whatever her own feelings might be. Claiming she is acting in the national interest while simultaneously admitting it’s contrary to the will of the people is simply more of the patronising hot air of so many Remain MPs.
Contrast her actions with those of Sir Paul Beresford, who is also said to have supported Remain and who’s constituency voted the same way. Are we expected to believe that he has no conscience because he has not opposed his party and people?
Given that it is big business, notably represented by the CBI, which protests most loudly about the cost of leaving without a deal, people are entitled to be wary of any claim that “those least able to afford it” would be worst affected. Those same people can least afford the money given to the EU each year or that demanded by them in compensation for the UK leaving.
The referendum campaigns showed how divisive the issue was and it has only become complicated because of opposition from some MPs and the EU. There was no “second part” on my ballot paper, nor was one mentioned at the time. Great efforts were made to decide what was on the referendum ballot paper and the conclusion was that the only fair options were Leave or Remain. Why is it different now?
All that was required to avoid damaging the economy and the reputation of the country in the world was for MPs to do what they promised and enact the will of the people. It is the reluctance of some MPs to keep their word that has caused the damage. Had they all put their party t-shirts aside and used their majority to force assent to the Withdrawal Agreement they would probably have earned the contempt of millions who regard it as a rotten deal and been ejected from Parliament at the earliest opportunity.
Stephen Kinnock has no power to negotiate anything. Even if he succeeds in forming a majority party of “moderates”, the EU has set out its terms and consistently refused to change them. We don’t have to renegotiate a trade deal with the EU; many countries don’t have one yet, including Australia, China and India.
It’s curious how the EU should find it so difficult to negotiate with the country most closely aligned with its rules, having abided by them for as long as they have existed. Of course, it’s quite likely that after the UK leaves without a deal the EU might refuse to negotiate until they’re given £39 billion. That would certainly cause a “bump” in the economy, though it would be clear who was responsible.
Kevin Bezant
September 12, 2019 at 4:26 pm
I applaud Anne Milton for standing up for her beliefs and her constituents. Guildford, after all, voted remain with a clear majority, something the critical Leavers commenting on this story seem to forget.
At least she has the courage to stand up and be counted, unlike Sir Paul Beresford (Con, Mole Valley) who has towed the party line whichever way it has veered.
Leaving the EU without a deal will be a disaster for the UK, especially young families and those least able to weather the storm that will undoubtedly follow.
I just hope that the Conservative party comes to its senses soon and regains the support of those of us who prefer the centre-ground. A first step on that journey would be to restore the whip to those who have been so cruelly cut adrift this week.
If the party keeps moving to the right one thing is clear, they will never form another government. As a lifelong Conservative voter, I believe that would be a travesty but at this moment in time, they have lost my vote.